8 Ball,
First let me say its good to be skeptical. I’m a very skeptical person. But its not good to be skeptical if one has to be unreasonable while doing so.

How do we know he was dead the whole time?

I’m sure you’ll agree, the paramedics that arrived at the seen are always motivated to the extreme to save someone’s life if its at all possible, They’ll work on a person for an hour if they believe that there is any hope to bring the person back. These guys have seen “dead” before, probably hundreds of times.
This guy was so “dead” these paramedics didn’t even bother to work on him to try and revive him. There was no hope for survival.
Its easy to say, maybe he wasn't really dead, especially if you weren't there. First, there is no reason, to think these paramadics were wrong. One can speculate they were, but w/o any reason for the speculation, that conclusion becomes unreasonable.

Point number two is, I’ve never heard of a person being pronounced dead, then w/o anyone working on them ,trying to revive them, they came back all by themselves. I’ve never heard of that, have you?

To think that happened here, is unreasonabe imo.

I would be careful, if I were you 8 ball, not to be limiting God’s power and abilities. If God wanted to do this he certainly could. have.

How would you overcome these points?

It is not unreasonable to think he wasn't really dead.

How do you know he wasn't dead?

From what I understand, Piper was trapped in his car and they had to use the jaws of life to remove him , which is why it took 90 minutes to get back to him. They wouldn't have been able to really 'work' on him in the first place, other than the parts of him they could actually reach. Also, there were others in the accident that they needed to 'work' on.

You weren't there either, edtwo. I haven't read the book, but if the review that 8ball posted is correct, the first person to take his pulse was a police officer, not an EMT. And I agree that it is completely plausible that the police officer may not have had the experience necessary in order to make such a diagnosis. By the time the paramedics arrived, they were told he was dead by the police officer and they probably didn't do as thorough a check, especially since there were others involved in the accident that they needed to work on. These are way more plausible and reasonable conclusions than "he was dead for 90 minutes, depriving his brain of oxygen, but came back to life 90 minutes later and was A-OK".

"It is not unreasonable to think he wasn't really dead."

You're claimimg he wasn't dead. You make this claim having not been there. Unless you can give me a reasonable explantion of why multiple professionals who know "dead" when they see dead, were wrong, your claim is unreasonble.
Give me a reasonable explantion of how these professtionals got it wrong.

"How do you know he wasn't dead?"

I know he was dead, based on the expert opinions of the people that were there. What do you base your opinion on that he wasn't dead? A guess is all you have.

"From what I understand, Piper was trapped in his car and they had to use the jaws of life to remove him , which is why it took 90 minutes to get back to him. They wouldn't have been able to really 'work' on him in the first place, other than the parts of him they could actually reach. Also, there were others in the accident that they needed to 'work' on."

He was alone in the car. I don't recall there being anyone else seriously hurt. If he had any signs of life they would not have given up so quickly.


"You weren't there either, edtwo."
No I wasn't. But the poeple who were there is what I base my conclusion on. Who exaclty was there that tell you he wasn't dead for 90 minutes. Answer: There's no one.

You just don't want to believe it, so in order to justify what happened, you have to ignore those who were there

Ok, why is this only the fourth man, the first one since biblical times, that god has decided to resurrect? And Jesus was the one doing the resurrecting in the bible. So Jesus resurrected three men and then 2,000 years later some guy off the street resurrected this one? Why was he so important that out of millions upon millions that have died, he was the only one worthy of being resurrected? Was it so that he could write that mediocre book? The reviews I have read say it's sometimes borderline childish and that there are only about 15 pages that have to do with his visit to heaven. People who have thousands praying for them die all the time, yet the this guy was brought back to life after an hour and a half of being stone cold dead because one guy prayed for him? I don't think so.

This post was last modified: Jul 16, 2008 08:57 AM by 8 Ball.

God could be trying to get your attention. You're saying,you are not interested. He says, fine,you don't want to let me in, that's up to you, I'm not going to break your door down.

This post was last modified: Jul 16, 2008 11:18 AM by EdTwo.

He's not going to break your door down, even though it means that he will one day punish your eternal soul for not being interested.

"G"