Eyewitness accounts are not always dependable. People can lie, people can be paid off, people can be mistaken, people can be intentionally deceived. Some people choose to rely on their own eyes instead of taking the word of others, especially when the subject at hand is their entire lifestyle and eternal soul.

I could write a book wrongfully accusing a man of murder. I could get some friends to say they saw him do it and put their testimonies in the book. If I gave you that book and swore it was the truth, would you go on a quest to have the man convicted of murder, or would you want to find the facts for yourself?

This post was last modified: Jul 14, 2008 11:38 AM by 8 Ball.

I agree 100% with you that eyewitness accounts are not always reliable.
But you think they lied,,,then you must prove it, because there is no evidence they did, Just to claim "its possible" as you have done, doesn't mean the writers did.

Same thing with your claim of being paid off, its just a claim with no
evidence.

They could have been decieved?

Not 500 people all at once.
Thats how many the writers claimed sawJesus after His resurection.

You and others seem to assume the writers are guilty of one or more of these things w/o any proof. That's why I insist to show me the
proof.Its not enough just to assume they're guilty

Take a point or two out of it, and we'll debate those points. I'm not going to debate a ton of claims all at once, so pick a couple that you think are valid.

Ed, just read the link I sent you. After you have read the entire thing, why don't you pick the things you object to the most. That is a good start, I think. I see that link as providing an overall view of why we can not view the gospel accounts as valid.

"G"

I see it this way... you have a document that is compiled of writings that were allegedly written 2,000 - 4,000 years ago by people that alledgedly witnessed mircales and a resurrection by a god that alledgedly exists. I cannot believe that my fate and everlasting soul hang in the balance and all I have to go on is this book that is "believed" to be written by people thousands of years ago. What if my fate lies in the belief of the Koran and Allah? It is unfair to make me decide and not give me any more to go on than an old book when every religion has it's own book and god. Whether I have eternal life or eternal damnation relies on my finite, human mind's ability to pick the right god and religion. A good god would not make a finite minded human decide his infinite salvation by reasoning out which religion is right and which is wrong.

Oh no? Jim Jones deceived thousands all at once. He had them so deceived that they all willingly drank poison and then laid down and died. They even gave their children the poison.

This post was last modified: Jul 14, 2008 11:59 AM by 8 Ball.

Much of what I read were what YOU DO. Make claims then provide no evidence.

Examples:
“Furthermore, a close comparison of II Peter to the epistle of Jude shows that the author of II Peter plagarized Jude, and for this reason, among others, scholars have almost unanimously concluded that II Peter is not authentic.”

Where is the proof of plagiarizing?
“Among other reasons” 2 Peter is not Authentic????
What other reasons?? All this link does is make empty claims. Where’s the beef??

Example..

“A common argument for the reliability of the gospels is that we have many manuscript copies of them. As an argument for the historical reliability of the texts, this is a non-sequitur: making a million copies of a lie will not turn it into a truth.”

Here it assumes the originals were lies. Where is the proof the original were lies?



“all of our gospels manuscripts date from after c. 200 A.D. This means we are in no position to detect any tampering that occurred prior to this date.”

Once again, they assume or project that “tampering” could have taken place, but once again there is no evidence.

These people are just like you George, there mind is already made up so the try to find stories that fit their position, but their evidence lacks any substance.

I know you want to beleive so you do. Just like some people wanted to beleive OJ didn't kill his wife. We Humans can get ourselves to believe anything we want. The trick is let the evicdence speak instead of letting our desires speak first.

Now do you want to pick a couple?.

He had them decieved on an IDEA, not a human coming back from the dead.