Post: #43

In your statement you associated liberalism with immorality, or at least a looser morality than your religion dictates, and you believe it will strip you of your choice to not accept a certain, non-damaging portion of the population of our country. If a liberal president promotes unity inside of diversity over prejudice and non-acceptance, you actually think that is a bad thing? The better parts of your bible are supposed to suggest unity of man, equality and love. From my experience in life so far, it's pretty difficult to love anyone without acceptance of the things you might not prefer. To take difference in preference to the extreme level of condemnation or even damnation in hopes of suffering, whether it be worldly or hypothetically metaphysical, is to stray from even a decently universal definition of morality. Right now, truth and morality are subjective because it is too difficult for any of us, in a large quantity, to even agree on the basic fundamentals of what it means to get to be a respected, equal part of society. This is largely because of religious, dogmatic mindsets that limit because of differences that for some reason, even though not producing any significant damage in society, are proposed to be sin, or worthy of condemnation and elimination (or at least silencing). When will we begin to strive towards a truly objective truth that we have progressed towards together?

"G"

Post: #44

Well that was very intelligent writing, but in a nutshell most of us baby boomers will not accept the change and continue our religious beliefs. I guess our children or grandchildren will sleep with same sex and feel it's OK. Parenting is where it used to start, but that's out the window these days as soon as a teen is allowed to hang with a bad apple. I only hope that what we have done our part in teaching our siblings the Bible not a signature rule from California. That state needs to fall off in the ocean soon and will.

I feel I'll be judged on doing my part and staying away from obvious sinners.

Post: #45

Geremy said:
A) How do you explain other species having homosexual tendenceis?

Answer:
I have no idea. I do know that they do not have a mind, will or soul, so it really doesn't matter. They are not accountable to God for their actions.

Geremy said:
B) Why would your god allow the minds of even children to be "given" over to a "perversion" such as homosexuality. I know a man who had told me that even at age 10, he knew that he was gay. Why would your omnipotent god allow children to be perverted, if it is a sinful tresspass?

Answer:
God wouldn't. He does not create homosexuals. He said the act of homosexuality is an abomination. He would not create something and then call it an abomination. That would make Him a liar, and He cannot lie. I do not believe anyone is born homosexual. I know that all children are naturally curious about sexuality, though they don't know what it is. They are drawn to others of their own gender simply out of curiosity. As they get older, Satan can use that interest to lead a person to believe that they are gay. But Satan is the father of liars. If a child is raised with the right values, he/she will naturally turn toward the opposite sex. Notice that I said "naturally". Because it is the way of nature for human beings to be straight.
Genesis 2:24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
God made woman for man. But, if children are taught that homosexuality is acceptable and normal, then they will most likely follow Satan.

I believe that a person can be delivered from homosexuality by God. But a person must be totally surrendered to Him first.
Some people do not believe they can be delivered or that they can change. In that case, they could live celibate. It is only the act of homosexuality that is wrong. Even many straight people live celibate if they're not married.

So, a person does not HAVE to live a homosexual lifestyle. It is a choice.

Post: #46

BYS,

All of your arguments would stand, if there was evidence that your god existed. If we could prove the existence of your god, to a reasonable extent (not even absolutely), then we could start to conform society to the oppressive standards of abomination, condemnation and eternal judgement. Since we have no good proof that your god exists, and since your god won't show itself and remains in mystery, we have to work off of a different premise for the whole of society.

Homosexuality presents itself in other species on our planet. You say that god didn't make humans homosexual, but it would have to be that god made these other animals homosexual. I will agree with you on one thing. People do have the "choice" to live a homosexual "lifestyle." The choice that I don't feel that have is whether or not they are attracted to the opposite sex or the same sex. A person can choose to live a heterosexual lifestyle if they are homosexual, but of course they will be miserable, if inside, they still feel attraction to the same sex. All you have to do is imagine the shoe being on the other foot for a minute. What if it was the other way around? What if the major U.S. religion was some crazy homosexual based sex-cult that went around condemning heterosexuals, telling them they were an abomination, but inside, every time you looked at your boyfriend, you felt deeply attracted to them.... yet your parents/church raised you to believe that you were an abomination and that all you have to do is choose to not live your sinful heterosexual lifestyle. How would that make you feel? Do you think that you could beat yourself over the head with religion enough to convince yourself that you weren't really attracted to men?

At the end of the day, if we don't have good reason to believe that your god exists, then we have to progress towards a morality that embraces equality. Sin isn't real unless your god is real. If sin isn't real, then the only thing we have to go by for morality is a deliberated universal standard that we weigh on the beneficial/neutral/damaging for society scale. This is the only way that we can progress towards morality together, unless you can present some good evidence for why your god exists.

"G"

---

Also:

"If a child is raised with the right values, he/she will naturally turn toward the opposite sex."

This just is not true. I have heard numerous stories of homosexuals who were raised from children, in the church, with Christian morals, nurtured in good families. I can assure you that there are plenty of well adjusted people who are homosexual, because they are attracted to the same sex and not the opposite. This isn't nurture. This is nature. I'm sorry but homosexuality has been around much longer than your holy books. If you're going to promote the influence of Satan, you're going to need to give proof that Satan and your god exist.

"G"

Post: #47

Geremy, You are always wanting proof, but this is what Jesus said:

Matthew 12:38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

This is what Paul said:

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

Post: #48

I'm telling you that your god's invisible attribute are not clearly seen. They are not. So your scripture is wrong here. These are the writings of the religious. The religious can't just tell us all that we all know god exists, yet we're denying it, so we get to go to hell.

It's ridiculous that you would use this argument as though it would enlighten or reveal something. All you are saying is, "you know god is real, you know it, you know it, and you're going to be punished because you just don't want to worship the god you know exists!"

This is not the case. I do not know that your god exists. If your god does exist, yet won't reveal himself and refuses to give a good sign for evidence and still chooses to punish those that don't believe in eternal hellfire, then he is unjust.

You can't get around the need for proof by telling us all that we already know, because that is a lie. I'm sorry that your holy book includes this type of lie, because you are so ready to believe it, but it's a lie. I thought that was supposed to be impossible.

"G"