Is it possible they were wrong? Sure anything is possible. Is it probable? No I don’t think so. .
If I were in a Court of Law and I was sitting in a Jury and witness after witness of experts said He was not breathing and his heart was not pumping. I would be wrong to inject my non expert opinion, plus the fact I wasn’t there and say, they must be wrong. I would have to go with the witnesses that were there.

Do you believe BYS, that God before He created the Universe, knew exactly when you would be born and He knows exactly when you will die? Sure He does.
As far as the Scripture verse. Its appointed onto men once to die and then the Judgement…..God could have easily just said, “its not your time yet” I don ‘t see a contradiction. God is Sovereign.

He very well could be using this to spread His message. I know Satan doesn't want all the people who are getting saved from this message, so I'm sure He's not behind it.

Thank you for keeping an open mind and not simply batting back everything that is thrown at you, BYS. Admitting that this incident is much more likely a result of human error than a miracle by god does not mean you have to admit there is no god. It just means this particular case is not proof of god. It seems that some people believe that if they listen to reason and decide this incident is not the miracle they originally believed it to be, then the very foundation their belief is built on will crumble and fall and they will be cast into a godless world.

I would like to expand on the quote about god having revealed all we need to know about heaven. It seems to me that if a man were to die and visit heaven, which is supposed to be the eternal "last stop", only to be brought back to tell everyone about it, it would have to be seen as a "glitch". You either go to heaven or you don't. You don't go to heaven for a little while and then god says "oops, you gotta go back now." It's almost as if Piper slipped by god for an hour and a half.

Couldn't Piper have come up with a more original description than the old cliche "streets of gold" and "pearly gates"? hehe. I'm suprised he didn't say everyone was sitting on clouds and playing harps. Anyway, thanks for the post, BYS.

This post was last modified: Jul 17, 2008 01:26 PM by 8 Ball.

Ed, you talk about the Atheists not budging, but take a look at yourself. You now have an extremely well read and devoted Christian quoting scripture to you in order to show you that this is not the miracle you think it is, yet you still just plug your ears, close your eyes and shake your head.

Ed,
Here are some of the reasons that I changed my mind. These are comments regarding the book review.

1. As Scripture says the law and the prophets is enough warning to make a sinner realize the gravity of his sin. No one, not even those who claim that are coming from the dead can present a better argument than God’s word. Though God has not revealed to us all what we may want to know, he has revealed all what we need to know. And we’d better listen.

2. I agree with you that Piper seems sincere, but my hunch is the severe trauma of his accident may have left him in a mental state that gave him the impression he’d been in heaven but wasn’t.

3. One big example of the fraud associated with these experiences is the example of a physician named Eby, who wrote one book describing his trip to heaven, and another one describing his trip to hell. This Dr. Eby said in his book about heaven,( and he was a favorite guest of the “Heresy broadcasting network” TBN), that Jesus Himself said that Eby must return to earth after walking the streets of heaven to go back to earth to tell everyone that His coming back to earth was very soon, and promised Dr. Eby, that he would not die until He (Jesus) returned for the Rapture. Well, of course another false prophet, and Eby is long gone now. It is these types of books that are a discredit to the truth of scripture. All we need is the Bible with the illuminating light provided by the Holy Spirit.

4. I’ve also got to believe that if any of us actually got to go to heaven for 90 minutes, we would have great difficulty not writing a whole lot more than 15 pages about it.

5. I’m with you Tim. Don Piper came and spoke at my church a few months back and although he talked about how his experience was meant to lead people to Jesus, we never once opened our Bibles nor did he really mention the gospel. I left extremely disappointed about how my time was wasted that Sunday morning.

Although I will say that he seemed like a good guy with a genuine heart for the Lord…just clearly misguided.

6. Luke 16:19-31 speaks of the parable that has been already referred to above. According to the Author of Life Himself (compare HIS “testimony” against Don Pipers, please), “…if someone from the dead goes to [the Rich man’s living family], they will repent…He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

7. Initially, my response to this book when promoted by the male leadership of my church was that it was not authentic. I had it given to me to read and found that it was not biblical in its assertions. I think the author must be a very dedicated and fine man, but I believe that his book is only another example of the gnosticism which is invading all kinds of churches all over. Sadly, we have become an experience-driven society prone to every strange tale which itches our ears or tempts our imagination. May God have mercy on us all.

There were many more. As I said before, I know some people die and are brought back. I personally know two people who were born dead and they were brought back. They are both brain damaged. One is nineteen and had the mind of a six year old. He most likely won't live to be much older. The other is still a baby, but severly damaged.

What I don't believe is someone going to heaven or hell and coming back. I also believe that IF it were possible, just like John, they would not be able to describe it. I believe they would have seen Jesus too.

This post was last modified: Jul 17, 2008 02:18 PM by BYS.

I choose to believe God had his hand in this, you don’t..so we move on. ;-)

But that wasn't the case. It's not like, at the scene of the accident, there were 10 EMTs standing in line, each taking his pulse to verify that he was dead. I admit, I did not read the book, but I read one review that mentioned a police officer was the first to take his pulse. I mentioned that a few times in the other thread, and since you, as someone who has read the book, did not correct me, I'm assuming that this is a true statement. The first person to take his pulse was a police officer and NOT a trained medical personnel. And his pulse was taken only two other times. possibly by the same person.